Interview
Nigerian government is the source Niger
Delta crisis ~ Dagogo-Jack'
For about two weeks now, what has been a subject of concern is the amnesty option by President Yar'Adua to Militants of the Niger Delta region. Thursday, the President came up with a statement that he is giving those concerned sixty days to decide. However, before then, there has been a mixed feeling amongst those interested in the Niger Delta project if the president was sincere or if these boys will be ready to take the opportunity and live in peace. As a result of all these, Alice Micah decided to engage a top politician and radical analyst of the political system on some issues bothering on all these. Below are excerpts:
Telegraph: Good afternoon, Sir, please may I know you?
Dagogo-Jack: My name is Minaibi Dagogo-Jack, the Chairman, Fresh Democratic Party, Rivers State chapter, and the State Chairman, Organised Opposition Political Parties (OOPP) in Rivers State. By the grace of God, I am also the Vice Chairman, Conference of Nigerian Political Parties (CNPP), Rivers State. I was the guber candidate for the 2007 elections for the Fresh Democratic Party (FDP) in Rivers State.
Telegraph: Right now the President is about to give out the conditions for amnesty, and from reports reaching me, one of the steps the president is about to take is to establish rehabilitation centres. But these centres are mainly concentrated in the north; do you think this is good for the amnesty arrangement?
Dagogo-Jack: No, I always wished to tell people that development could only be said to be done when you allow the recipient of that developmental policy to partake in the process. You don't just set up a rehabilitation centre without understanding the needs of the people. You don't just set up a rehabilitation centre without understanding the conducive environment where the centre should be to the people you are planning this for. When you impose a lot of things on the people, what development, for instance, may mean to community A, may not mean development to community B. All over the world, in fact, the world's acceptable definition of development is that at the end of the day, it will cause satisfaction on the recipient. What the president is saying is the military methodology. You set up a centre, keep it somewhere and ask this people to go there and begin to do what. No, we have passed that stage. For goodness sake, let the president come down and understand what the people desire, how they desire and the way they will desire it. That, I think is my idea on this matter.
Telegraph:: For about a month now that the JTF said they submitted names of those backers of militants to the President. Since then the president has not come up with any statement to that effect. But the feelers we have is that the President is waiting to come up with the amnesty conditions, then he will go ahead to mention their names and grant them amnesty at once. If really this report is true, do those people deserve amnesty?
Dagogo-Jack: I want to say that the President is a human being and he has been talking. Last time when I spoke with this paper I said until the president himself accepts that such list was given to him we may not believe that the allegation is true. At this moment that the president has not made any statement, I consider this statement as propaganda on the part of JTF, otherwise, the president should come up with a statement. So, for the president to have kept mute all this while, you know what silence means. The moment Ateke Tom had a press conference, in less than 20 hours, the president came up with a statement and that is the way we expect him to react if indeed an organization like JTF sent him such list.
Telegraph:The militants are saying that for them to accept the amnesty arrangement, they should be allowed to choose those that will negotiate on their behalf. Their reasons being that, Asari and others surrendered their arms, they were later arrested or declared wanted and all that. Is this decision necessary at this point?
Dagogo-Jack: Well, I see Mr. President as someone who is sincere. But the system in which he is working is not a sincere one. There is no way you want to make peace, then some people came out to embrace peace and you arrest them. There is no reason for that. Like I said and I want to repeat without fear or favour that if you want this people to be rehabilitated to make peace, every process of the amnesty and rehabilitation must involve this people. It must be participatory.
Telegraph(cuts in): In essence of what you are saying is that you agree with the idea of the militants choosing those to negotiate for them?
Dagogo-Jack: I don't know them, I can't speak for them. But all I am saying is that under normal circumstance, it is proper that you allow them to participate. If they are saying they want to choose who to represent them, why would you loose for allowing them to choose. You would loose nothing for God's sake. And if you want to achieve genuine peace, you must allow participation. That is what we are taking about!
Telegraph: The government is about to set up a technical committee that will oversee the rehabilitation of repented militants, what is your reaction on that?
Dagogo-Jack: Well, I want to suggest that there are people who have been on the ground, who have been in the course of rehabilitating these militants. A man in the likes of Bishop Friday Nwato in Rivers State here has been doing a lot. And it's so unfortunate that the government of Rivers State has not encouraged him. My private investigations reveal to me that banks and individuals have been able to assess this man. I will suggest the federal government that whatever committee or commission that he wants to set up, people in the likes of Bishop Nwato should be allowed to participate, because in the midst of nothing, he has been doing a lot. Not just bringing in technical partners who will come to speak grammar without doing anything. There is no genuine repentance without the power of God. We need to understand the basics, then in line with the technical partners and God, we can see a genuine transformation in the lives of these militants.
Again, let me also mention this, the Federal Government should please try and be sincere on this Niger Delta matter. The secret, cabalistic movements and tendencies are too much. I have been in the fight for rights of the Niger Delta for a while. I was the National President for the Congress of Oil and Gas in Rivers State. Then we were not carrying arms. But I know I have been locked up, I have been intimidated, all in the course of this. When genuine persons were fighting, Federal Government didn't note them. When they killed Saro-Wiwa, they thought that all these things will be over, when they killed Adaka Boro, they thought all these things will be over. The Nigerian government is the problem of the Niger Delta crisis. And then you now see people coming up to this level, oil companies are no more here and then you think you will use JTF to kill them. That can never solve the problem. So the amnesty should be a genuine one. They should remove all these conditions.
It is rumoured again, that one of the conditions that the federal government is giving for the amnesty is the implementation of the Ledum Mitee's report. I say no to that. That is our right, it should not be a condition. Ledum Mitee and the technical committee met and came up with a report. You have not released that report up till today. You are not sincere. So you don't use that as a condition. The rights of the people must not be used as a condition for its implementation. You linger on and on and by the time you know it, another problem comes up and you begin to call on our people. I don't know the name they will call them this time around. They've called them criminals, they've called them militants, may be this time around they will coin another word. Bu the issue we are saying is that the Federal Government and the Nigerian state is the cause of all these problems, because they have refused to genuinely dialogue, they have refused to come down to the root of the problem and now they are saying they want to set up a rehabilitation centre outside without consulting the people. This will not solve the problem. So we want to use this opportunity to plead with the government to please come down to the basics. If these boys are sending representatives, allow these people to dialogue on behalf of them on the way forward because we need peace in this area. You don't need to kill our people; it's enough of all these problems.
Telegraph: Up till now that criminality crept in to the struggle of the Niger Delta, the Nigerian state wasn't really listening to the agitations of the people and it is this criminality that has really caught up more attention from the international community. Right now they are talking of disarmament and amnesty. Don't you think if these boys drop their arms, the Nigerian government will forget about the issue the Niger Delta is agitating for?
Dagogo-Jack: No I don't think so. They are dropping arms. Of course, every normal human being will advise them to drop arms just like the way I will advise them to drop their arms. I have been in the fight for the rights of the Niger Delta people, I have never carried arms. I could be locked up, I could be incarcerated, I could be intimidated, we still forged ahead. But the issue we are saying is that let them drop arms. But if the dropping of arms is not done with a genuine heart, (and that is why we are saying that people like Bishop Nwato who could pray should be involved and let there be divine intervention first). When there is a divine intervention and genuinely, you dialogue with them to know what they desire and the effect is development. But for the fight for the Niger Delta, it will continue because until resource control is achieved, I don't think that there will be end to the agitations.
Telegraph: Almost on daily basis, pipelines are laid to the north, and don't you think that by the time they succeed in laying all the pipes they want, they will just ignore us, since they can get what they want through the pipes?
Dagogo-Jack: No, I don't think they will, because the boys will not just forget about what they were looking for. Let me tell you something, when Adaka Boro was killed they thought they have killed the person that was agitating, and somewhere other people emerged. When Saro-Wiwa and the elders of the Ogonis were killed, of course they thought that people were dead, till tomorrow they didn't know that people like Tompolo and others will come up. They didn't know that people like Alhaji Asari will emerge. So that's the issue. If today these boys drop their arms and they think that because the boys have dropped their arms the agitations will end, no it will not end. The agitation has come to the level that even clergy, men of God, traditional rulers, and reasonable men are now talking. It is no more the issue of 'the youths are agitating', even the elders are talking. Except you want to kill everyone of us, otherwise, aluta continua!
Telegraph: Recently, the Niger Delta Ministry was created. Do you think this ministry has really done anything towards achieving its objectives?
Dagogo-Jack (Cuts in): Wait, let me tell you this, there has been ministry of women affairs, it has never made any impact on women. So, bringing up the issue of Niger Delta in form of a ministry, to me, is nothing. You can see the allocation that has been given to such ministry. I was at the Government House, Port Harcourt when the Minister came to address stakeholders of Rivers State on their intentions. And what happened that day, I was surprised. You know this system of coming to meet people and then saying this is what we have done, this is what we want to do. You have to allow people to tell you what they want. Participatory approach demands that you must go to the women, you must go to the men, you must go to the chiefs, you must go to the youths, and then they will all tell you what they desire, then you make a graph of the desires of the people and know what is the critical needs of the people and not to go to Government House. Those who do not have access to Government House, would they have access to speak their voice, no! So, Niger Delta ministry to me, may not do so much except we keep praying. Look, let me tell you one thing, it is only God that has been keeping this nation. If not God, this nation would have been something else, because of cabalism. The cabals are doing what sooths them, not what the government want them to do.
Telegraph: Sir, it seems there is problem within the CNPP right now, you are the Vice Chairman. Can you enlighten the public on that?
Dagogo-Jack: I don't really see any major problem in CNPP. It's just that some people are trying to be childish. People who do not understand the constitutional provisions of the organization are trying to do what they like. In any case CNPP is still CNPP and we are still forging ahead. Nobody can toy with the CNPP any how. There is a constitutional provision that guides the conduct of every member of CNPP. And so all these things you are hearing that there is problem here and there, I don't see as problem, CNPP is still intact.
Telegraph: How would you rate the Governor Amaechi-led administration for now?
Dagogo-Jack: Well, the government of Amaechi is trying, but that does not mean that there are no errors. The undue delays of contracts awarded here and there is causing all sorts of problems on the roads. But I think for now he is trying and I give him a fair mark. He has been able to take the bull by the horns and I think he needs to be encouraged to do more.
Telegraph: You are talking of delayance of contracts. Investigations show that most of the contractors are Rivers indigenes. It is the contractors that are to blame, or the government?
Dagogo-Jack: Let me tell you something. People are saying it is the contractors that are to blame, no. The important thing we are saying is that, every contract have what we call contract agreement, and every contract have what we call contract programme, from this period to this period, you should be able to achieve this, and on the part of the government they need to pay the contractor some amount of money at a particular level. There are stages of jobs. And from the private investigations I have made, government is sincere in its payments. But I want to suspect those who represent the government; I mean the commissioners, engineers and all that. If the contractor is not living up to expectations, it is expected that he is warned, and if there are no changes, then the contract should be revoked. If that is done to one or two persons, every other person will live up to expectations. You don't just sit and say it is the contractors that are delaying jobs and all that. And again, when you give contracts to your friends and you see that they are not doing the job, you keep quiet; you and the contractor will be blamed. So it is not the contractors alone. I am saying that those representing the governor in the process. Because if the contractor is erring, and he is discipline accordingly, I believe everyone will learn their lessons.
Telegraph: Thanks for the audience.
Dagogo-Jack: Thank you.
